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stoneman 6:17 Mon Oct 31
The Battle of Orgreave.

Glad to see Amber Rudd say there was no case to answer.

Good to see Andy Burnham jumping on another bandwagon.

So the facts are these ( miners version )......they turned up at Orgreave with flowers in their hair, singing peace songs and meditating peacefully then the nasty pugs turned up and battered the shit out of them with truncheons, they couldn't fight back as they don't believe in forceful resistance.

I was a teenager at the time watching it on the news and what I saw was both sides going at it hammer and tong, a good old fashioned scrap.

Nobody died, nobody got seriously injured and no one was imprisoned.

Well done Amber Rudd for saving the tax payer money.

joe blob 8:17 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Scargill was a total cunt as was Thatcher on the other extreme.

wansteadman 8:16 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Scargill thought he ran the country not thatcher unfortunately calling for a strike and not having a vote against a leader who had stockpiled coal and wanted the fight showed what an arsehole he was, he never gave a fuck about the miners,
Also he had his mortgage with RBC and paid it up in cash 2 weeks before the strike. I'd like to know where the money came from

Hayzer 7:56 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Didn't scargil sell his flat in the Barbican for £2 mill or summut.. He managed ok out of it

stomper 7:52 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

stoneman 6:54 Tue Nov 1
"They used outside forces because the SYP could not cope with all of the strikes and still run a day to day police service."

Well the SYP had too live in the mining community and therefore couldnt be relied on

Importing Police from other areas to act en mass against the people, is not standard policing, but the actions of a Tyranny, NOT a democracy. See Hungary 1956

stomper 7:45 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Comma 8:55 Mon Oct 31

"stomper, let's get something clear about Scargill. He was for the Yorkshire miners only."

I disagree, he also worked for the Durham, Welsh and Kentish miners.

"He did not care about other pit workers or indeed for workers in other industries."

Again I believe he entered the strike with dreams of success and Revolution. Dont forget get that the Miners were called 'The Crack Infantry of the labour movement. I think he saw himself as Trotsky overthrowing the capitalist system, just as the miners in the 70's overthrew the Heath government.
Unfortunately he was all ego and no strategy. He was walking into a trap well prepared. With Thatchers stockpiles of coal he had no chance of winning AT THAT TIME.



"He was well prepared to blockade Ravenscraig for example and see steel workers starved of wages."

Solidarity Comrade, 'the Unions divided can never be defeated' Anyway the coal mines and steel worked were all part of the same means of production. If the steel miners joined the strike they would receive their strike pay and it would be be one step closer the a General Strike, one step closer to revolution.

"And he never had a democratic mandate for his strike."

NO one seems to remember that, if he had held a ballot, I think about spring '94 he may well have won. He didn't so he never had a mandate. This is why miners drifted back:they would never scab on an official strike.

Most of the ideas expressed here are not mine but Scargill's
To sum up
The Miners were led by a vainglorious, self promoting idiot.
The Tories we led by a heartless Machiavella, determined to avenge Heaths defeat by the miners, by destroying their industry.

PS: The police my have started the violence at Orgreave, for the crime of secondary picketing a law so recent that the ink was still wet, but I know for certain that many miners arrived tooled up and ready for aggro

I was a musician at the time and played a number of concerts for the miners. At the time I was even getting married to a Geordie, daughter of a miner.

Hayzer 7:03 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Late 80s and 90s I worked with loads of northerners on sites. Good lads from Sheffield, Leeds Nottinghamshire. Many ex miners. You don't see any on sites now. Just Ian's. That's what an enquiry should be about, how the British working class has been shafted for cheap foreign labour.

stoneman 6:54 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

More bullshit from Alvin.

They used outside forces because the SYP could not cope with all of the strikes and still run a day to day police service.

If it's a well known fact that the police use outside forces to police such events can I expect the Merseyside police at our next home match?

stoneman 6:52 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Just checked their website out, fully paid up members of the Jeremy Corbyn project.

I think I will ignore any of their bullshit if you don't mind.

Alvin 6:51 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Usual tactic with policing.Don't use local lads because they might get friendly, in this case with miners.

stoneman 6:48 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

The Glasgow media group?

Well I stand corrected then! A Tory hating, police hating, labour voting organisation would never manipulate the truth.

Far too many conspiracy theorists on here.

Edmonton Hammer 6:41 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

My dad was old bill shipped up there from Waltham Abbey for weeks on end bit of a culture shock but paid the mortgage I suppose

overbyyer 3:00 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Mike Oxsaw wrote...

It was widely perceived, whether true or not, that owning stuff - your home, shares, a decent motah, a respectable collection of videos - were all signs of one's self bettering. Is that not actually the case?




No, you've confused bettering one's self with selling one's self into a superficial, materialistic consumerist society.

Mike Oxsaw 1:59 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

ray winstone 9:41 Tue Nov 1

My recollections of the day are that this was all conducted under the banner of "Bettering One's self"*.

It was widely perceived, whether true or not, that owning stuff - your home, shares, a decent motah, a respectable collection of videos - were all signs of one's self bettering. Is that not actually the case?

Are you saying that there are acceptable, and unacceptable, ways of "bettering one's self"?

If so, what are they? I'd appreciate some examples of each to make sure that what I've passed onto my kids are all acceptable methods.


* - not "Battering One's self", which the Yorkshire miners, and, indeed many of the more militant unions of the day seemed intent on doing.

Sven Roeder 1:53 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

I am guessing there were too many documents with Thatcher's fingerprints on them.
And too many post Hillsborough S Yorkshire police prepared to spill the beans.

These are the sort of people the families were dealing with ....

Former deputy prime minister Lord Heseltine has revealed he strangled his mother’s dog.
The Tory grandee said the pet Alsatian, Kim, had “obviously had some sort of mental breakdown”.
He told Tatler magazine: “I went to stroke him and he started biting me.
“If you have a dog that turns, you just cannot risk it.
“So I took Kim’s collar – a short of choker chain – and pulled it tight.
“Suddenly he went limp.
“I was devoted to Kim, but he’d obviously had some sort of mental breakdown.”

DOG MURDERING BASTARDS!

ray winstone 1:52 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

A8, Labour set up the Hillsborough Independent Panel, which shed new light on Orgreave, leading to the current demands for an inquiry. HTH.

chelmsfordhammer 1:49 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Sven , I would imagine her change of mind has probably got something to do with her finding out how involved the government were with what went on not just during the miners dispute but other disputes at that time such as wapping.

Far Cough 1:46 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

I'm waiting for the enquiry into the Peterloo massacre

chelmsfordhammer 1:45 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

not to hold an enquiry

chelmsfordhammer 1:44 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

After8, I have no idea , I take it you think labour should have held an enquiry , in that case , I take it you agree that Amber Rudd was wrong to hold an enquiry ?.

Sven Roeder 1:44 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

Its only recently that the activities of the South Yorkshire Police at Hillsborough were finally revealed.
Which is why Rudd was presumably telling the Orgreave people there would be an inquiry.
One of the miners who was involved in the discussions said that Rudd had been discussing formats of the inquiry with them.

Now its all off.
Seems a bit odd

After8 1:40 Tue Nov 1
Re: The Battle of Orgreave.

So labour ignored those poor people for 13 years and thought they were all liars?

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